Starting Strength

5pointer

I’m just wondering if it is common for people to be unable to get their shoulders to extend far enough to get into the bottom position of the snatch with the bar over head, behind the neck. For me this is hard enough to do just standing straight up. The shrug position at the top of the press is basically my limit. If I then try to squat down even a little, I cannot keep the bar over the center of my feet due to my torso and arms falling forward.

Is there likely no hope for me, as with a lot of people, to do this movement, or can most people aquire the flexibility if they do not posses it initially?

Mark Rippetoe

If you have bony arthritis in your shoulders, you cannot snatch. But you probably don’t so you probably can.

Kim Goss

Try the split snatch, as you can get away with less external rotation of the shoulders in the low position. Often, this is why you will see lifters in the masters divisions use this style.

Alchemist

I introduced my workout partner (not life partner, NFW) to SS for an ACL injury rehab. With that half tucked away, she is NDTFP but only squats and deadlifts and only 2x a week, primarily due to life/time constraints….and this issue I’m about to ask about. So, truly, asking for a friend.

The issue is warm ups seem to be either ineffective or taking WAY too long and we can’t seem to suss out the middle road. Maybe pertinent she is hyperflexible due to Elher-Danners syndrome and also has the corresponding lack of proprioception.

She is 6’1″, 220 lb.

Squats are currently 5×3@165 lb. DL @185 lb

Keeping in mind we’ve tried a slew of warm up scheme, her basic is

BWx10

BWx10

45×10

45×10

95×5

115×5

125×5

155×5

160×3

work sets

The issue is, per her, she does not feel warmed up with that scheme and the work sets both look and feel pretty bad. She’s been back and forth at this weight due to the form being so bad as we try and add more weight. We’ve tried 3 lb, 2 lb and even 1 lb increases and she gets pinned at 168 lb and form looks like corresponding hell. We deloaded her a couple times to no effect. But now what I find the interesting data point.

Out of utter sheer frustration she did the above, and then 3 sets at 165×5 and tried a 4th set because of the observation the last reps on set three were not feeling too bad…..and she proceeded to destroy the 4th set. and 5th. and 6th. I’ve never seen her form and speed so good. She proceeded to do 9 fucking sets and capped it with 5 @ 170 and they were easy.

Her conclusion is only after 3 working sets was she feeling properly warmed up. And I’m having trouble arguing. The issue is that scheme is taking a fucking hour. Our last test cut that scheme in half, had her do 3×5 of her working sets….and it didn’t have the same effect. She didn’t feel warmed up.

What the hell are we missing? Can you suggest a better warmup scheme….or something? I feel like we are missing the forest for the the trees.

A last side note, her warm ups and squat set don’t seem to carry over to DL in that without way too many warm up sets, the pattern repeats. Jerky form, struggles, etc.

Mark Rippetoe

You’re missing the fact that human perception is inadequate. These are far too many warmup sets. It doesn’t matter what she thinks, because she doesn’t have the experience to know. If she does a couple of empty bar sets, 95×5, 125×5, and 145×2, she’s warm. And she’s obviously not doing the program at all, so she probably needs a better coach, one who charges money so she’ll listen.

Alchemist

Serious question. I’m not trolling. I’m not trying to bait you. Totally serious as I realized I literally couldn’t put an answer to the question and google just fed me the classic lines of ‘it prevents injury’ and the like. That all said, and take your flavor, how do you know you or someone is actually warmed up? By what criteria can someone make that judgement? “if you do this, x,y and Z, you are warmed up” isn’t what I’m talking about as it would only lead to ‘how do you know x, y and z are an effective warm up?’

I seem to recall you talking about not demonstrating OHP at the seminar I attended with you because due to previous life injuries (paraphrasing from 5-6 years ago) it took you upwards to 45 minutes to warm up. Am I miss remembering?

Mark Rippetoe

You are not mis-remembering — you are taking me seriously, and I was not being serious. Warmups for my work sets of squats at 305×3 would be 45x3x2, 135x2x3, 225×1, 275×1, work set.

You know you are warmed up through experience. You do too much warmup, then too little warmup, and then just enough warmup, and having done this a few weeks you can tell what is happening. She doesn’t need as much warmup as the example you posted, but if she wants to do it that way and she has the time, go ahead.